Episode 11Haunted Theatres Part 2

Hello everyone, welcome to episode 11 of Lights on Still Scared. My name is Graham Millen.

My name is Karen Swanson.

And tonight we'll be looking at Haunted Theatres Part 2. I've got one for you now from Edinburgh.

Edinburgh? There's loads of theatres in Edinburgh.

Well, there is, there is. Lots of very famous stories online. This one's from the King's Theatre, which is up near Brunswick.

That's just opened up, hasn't it?

Yeah, and it'd been shot for what four years or so?

Quite a while.

Yeah. So hopefully I'm going to go up and have a wee look at that at some point and see what's been what's been going on there. And I'm trusting the development wasn't too brutal. Actually, the story I'm going to tell you now, and there probably is far more than one I'm going to tell you now, is it's not from myself. It's it's from a gentleman called Ron Halliday, who's uh a researcher and an author. And uh he's he wrote a very interesting book called Edinburgh After Dark a few years back, and had a great story from the Kings in it, and basically I'm gonna repeat it now because it was a fantastic story. So as I say, it was just the theatre had gone under, has been going under going a refurb for many years, and I think if I remember correctly, it concerns a gentleman who was there for uh and it's a very short story there for a day out uh for a theatre performance, and at the interval he went to the bar, but despite being there, previously found himself lost, which was quite unusual. I mean, what I'm gathering from this was the guy had been there as a patron, knew the building pretty well, followed the same route as before, and suddenly found that he wasn't in the same place. It was almost like he'd stepped back in time and was maybe seeing it from a different era when it was configured differently. I mean I'm not sure how many times it's been done up in the past, but I'm assuming it must have at some point. So he headed upstairs and he came to a dead end, which he found a little perplexing, so he began to retrace his steps. And I mean, I don't know about you, but I've done that a few times when I've been out the place. And you get, wait a minute, where am I going? And we panic, you know, because you're because something's about to start in five minutes, you're sort of running about. But he noticed a woman then walking towards him, and uh she passed him on the stairs. So the stairs aren't particularly wide, so this woman was very close by him. And as she passed him, he was shocked when he looked down and noticed he was actually floating above the steps. So she was walking on steps that weren't there, uh, and the fact she was wearing a very old-fashioned clothing. And she passed right by him and he kind of just stood there and looked, and she went right through the wall and vanished. So he ran downstairs and blurted out his stories to the companion who at first thought he was joking, uh, but he assured them he was not. But who the mysterious woman is remains unclear. And he said, or the quote was that he felt too embarrassed to ask others if they had had a similar experience. So who knows? It's a tale in isolation at the moment, but it's a damn good one. And I was tempted to approach the workies while they were doing up the theatre and sort of ask if they'd seen anything, but I got a little shy and thought I better not. And Casey thought I was some, you know, I was strange. So best not too. But I can imagine I must can you imagine working in a theatre doing up for two years? How brilliant an opportunity.

Yeah, I'm sure that they were they were visited a few times. I bet they were, yeah. I'm actually going to the King's Theatre in a few months' time. Paranormal activity.

The show. Fantastic.

So that'll be a good one. Thing is, though, would you know what's actually in the show and what's actually called the ghosts?

Less art imitating life, indeed. Go horribly wrong. Wow. That sounds good. Do you know anything about the show itself?

I saw it in London, so I thought I will see it again up here.

Is it scary?

Um The special effects are very good. The acting, scary for other reasons.

Fair days. I think I did see a clip of it, at least a promotional thing, and it looked like the audience were all shrieking and clinging to the money.

There was a lot of shrieking going on, I must admit, and I thought, what's going on? Yes.

Well I look forward to hearing what happens there.

Indeed.

Just starring Sid James, perhaps.

Ah, dear, well, my next one So another famous theatre down in London. There I've got all the London ones. Um yes, so this is Theatre Jewry Lane. Oh, yeah. So yeah, so it's meant to be one of the most haunted buildings, apparently. Or one of the most haunted theatres in Britain, apparently. Right. So it's built in 1812, although theatres have occupied the site since 1663.

All right, okay, so an old one.

So it's quite an old one, yeah. And there's loads of things, I mean, that's gone on over the centuries, like fires and accidents and theatrical traditions that have carried a rich body of folklore.

Uh-huh. Okay.

Unlike many haunted buildings, ghosts are considered good luck rather than threatening.

Okay. That's good to know.

That's good to know, yeah. So I think I think that's just the uh the way that actors and people in theatre work, they don't find them as scary a lot of the time. They find them as fight good luck.

Yeah.

Um so one of the most famous theatre ghosts is the man in grey, which makes a change.

I was gonna say that you beat me to the punch there. It makes a change.

Usually have a lady in grey, but no, he's a man in grey. So um he's reported been seen for over 200 years, so he's quite an old ghost as well. Many actors believe seeing him before opening night brings good luck and predicts a successful production. So they do see him as quite a quite a good luck kind of mascot, I would say.

And there since the pretty much the theatre was built, which is interesting, yeah.

Yeah, so he's described as a tall and thin, wearing a grey riding cloak or cap, a tricorn hat, a powdered wig, riding boots, sword by his side, um, and a pale, expressionless face. So he sounds quite a nappy, doesn't that very well dressed. Very well dressed indeed, doesn't he? Yeah. So his behaviour is that he walks silently uh uh through the upper circle and always follows the same route, never acknowledges uh when witnessed, and disappears into the same wall near the royal box. Uh so that sounds like he's a residue healthing, doesn't he? He's just replaying it over and over again.

Yeah.

Um but one of the best known sightings uh occurred during the rehearsal of what approximately 20 cast and crew members reportedly watched him walk across the upper circle before disappearing into the wall. So the fact that so many people saw him.

Yeah, I like that. Yeah, there's something to it, isn't it? Yeah, 100%. Because it's not mass euthanasia, that's for sure. Yeah.

Um and during alterations of the theatre, workers reportedly discovered a human skeleton with a dagger uh hidden inside of the what very wall where the ghost walks into. Okay. Um and according to theatre tradition, the remains received a proper burial and sightings became less frequent afterwards. However, they never completely stopped. So he's still around, but not so much. Um, but they don't know who he was, they never established skeleton at all.

Right, yeah.

Um, and one of the other ones is Charles Macklin, possibly sixteen now. This this amazed me, possibly born in 1699. Right. He died in 1797.

Crivence. That's very old for that time.

They do say perhaps he was as late as early as 1600s. So he could be over a hundred years old. Um, but he was an Irish actor, playwright, and theatre manager, and he was considered the greatest Shakespearean actor of the 18th century. And he r revised uh the role of Shylock by portraying him as a serious dramatic character rather than a comic villain. I suppose back before that. March it of Venice? Is that Shylock? I think it is, yeah. Very good. So he helped influence the move forward for a non-natural acting style. Right. I suppose back then it was all very stagy and very over the top. And he lived to what they're saying, a remarkable age of approximately 97 to 98 years old, uh, which makes him the longest living actor of his era. Now, what is interesting with this man is that in 1735, whilst working backstage in Jerry Lane, Macklin became involved in an argument with a fellow actor called Thomas Hallam. And the dispute was reportedly over a wig or stage property or a theatrical costume. So the accounts differ. It could be a wig, could be a bit of outfit, I don't know. Um but during the altercation, Macklin thrust his walking cane towards Hallam. The cane entered his left eye, and the entry injury penetrated the brain, and he died the next day. So Macklin was arrested and in prison whilst waiting the trial and tried in court. But he wasn't acquitted. And he wasn't convicted of murder, but he was convicted of manslaughter.

Um did he go to prison?

It wouldn't appear so. What? No, he didn't appear to go to prison at all. And that's what I felt for hold on. Why didn't he go to prison? Uh so the defence successfully argued that Macklin never intended to kill him, um, and the fatal injury was as a result of sudden argument and an extraordinary accident. And because murder couldn't be proven, he escaped the death penalty. But it also looks like that he escaped a lengthy prison sentence as well, because he went on stage shortly afterwards. So it looks like he has literally got a wave of murder.

That's insane.

But uh his ghost apparently still walks the backstage and occasionally seen near the corridor where Hanuman had the fatal injury. And some models stories claim that he quietly watches the rehearsals, and others suggest he occasionally helps actors remember their forgotten lines.

That's helpful.

Oh, dear, which it which you would think that the the guy who actually died there would be haunting, not him, but then perhaps it was a guilty conscience.

Well, that's what I thought. I thought the guy who died tragically would surely be the ghost, not the other guy.

Very interesting. Yeah. Um, and one of the the most famous ones is a Joseph Grimaldi. Oh, is he the clown? He is the clown, yes. So he's the father of modern clown. Um, one of apparently Britain's greatest theatrical performers, and it is where the word Joey comes from because of his name. So he did have a difficult life, bless him. Although he's famous for making people laugh, he did endure a considerable amount of personal suffering. Um he experienced chromos back injuries, severe joint damage, arthritis, constant physical pain, difficulties walking in later life. Um, I don't think he was that old. I think it was about in his sixties actually when he passed. Okay. So he did endure quite a bit as well. He did suffer from personal tragedies, including the death of his first wife during childbirth, uh, the death of his only son following alcoholism, and he suffered from long periods of depression. And his quoted to commonly associate with him was I'm grim all day, but I make you laugh at night. So Yeah, but the ghost of uh Grimaldi is kind, protective, and playful, apparently. He gently taps you on the shoulder, playfully kicks before performances. Kicks people. Kicks people. I wouldn't say that's playful. No, not really, depending on the being kicked as well, it could be very he's a comforting present backstage and quietly encourages nervous performers.

Maybe that's the reason these theatres are haunted. Maybe there's a kind of professional etiquette going on.

So yeah, so when you there is also a smell, a sudden smell of lavender that's associated to him, or old furnishing floral per perfume. Um, and this fragrance suddenly comes on without any obvious um source of the perfume at all. So apparently it's associated with him um could be because at one point it's alleged that he suffered from incontinence. Oh, so mask the old So they say it was the part might to mask that. But then it could be for several reasons why he smelled of lavender. It could be because, you know, it was like powdered wigs and stuff like that.

Well that's true. Yeah, so yeah, so he didn't get a good he wasn't have a good life by the sounds of it, but I mean this is somebody again I'm gonna have to look into because I can't remember when he actually passed away. But I know a lot of a lot of actors, uh comedic actors kinda revered him and looked up to him and or at least some of his performances.

Indeed. So yeah, but he's not a nasty ghost by the sounds of it, apart from the kicking. Um he's playful, protective, and responsive.

I love that. Playful kicking. He gave him a playful kicking.

So that yeah, so that is Jewry Lane.

Very good. Well, I'm going back to Aberdeen again, uh, as one does, uh, to talk about a theatre called the Tivoli. Tivoli was one of those theatres, again, really old style one, which was designed again by Matcham. Uh it was opened in Guild Street, which is near the bus station, if you've ever been down to Aberdeen, near the harbour. It was opened in 1872 by the Aberdeen Theatre and Opera House Company, Limited, and um was originally named Her Majesty's Theatre, but became the Tivoli later on. Anyway, it's been done up a few times, um, and when it was redone in about 1909, reconstructed by Matcham, and that's when it's called the Tivoli as we know it. Um it was typical of theatres that did really well for many, many years. Had some lots of interesting performers, you know, like Charlie Chaplin, um lots of famous people played there. As time marched on, television arrived, obviously, people stopped attending the theatre as much, and the numbers dropped, and subsequently in the 60s it became a uh a bingo hall. As a lot of them did. Uh, and then eventually in the 80s fell into disrepair and was bought over by I think, if I remember correctly, uh was a businessman, uh I think maybe a Slater, and really nothing was done with it for years. So there's a kind of trust involved at this point. I mean it's a really important building. I I don't know the ins and outs of it. I'm sure it's something political, but certainly wasn't much done to it, but there were constant uh arguments about getting it saved. And at the time which is going back say 15 years ago, if I remember, roughly about then, I used to get in there quite often because I knew the guy who was part of the trust and they were really generous with their time. He used to just let you walk around, take photographs. I've got tons of photos of this beautiful building when it was in a state of disrepair, really, really interesting, still bits of props lying about. I didn't realise it was haunted. I mean, I spoke to the guy who's running it, and he was like, you know, I've never seen anything. And it's one of these theatres where there's no stories, you know, really attached to it. But I was like, there's gotta be something here. It's creepy. So eventually, years later, I bumped into someone who was an ex uh uh cleaner there actually, and she was going, Oh, I worked there for years, and I saw a ghost there once. I was like, Oh, did you know? That sparked your interest. It did spark my interest. I want to hear about it, and it's really, really interesting. I take what before I get into it though, which was strange. I did take a photograph there once, and it was of a dressing room. The dressing room was the one that Julie Andrews first performed in way back when she was a kid basically. And in the corner of the room was some wires hanging from the ceiling, because it was, you know, falling to bits. And I took a photograph, and there was this weirdest blue light from this area, like it looked like it looked vaguely, vaguely like a human body, sort of dangling from the ceiling upside down. That's a bit odd. But it could have just been a trick of the light or something. Anyhow, blue is what we must remember, I suppose, because when I was speaking to this cleaner, she said that she had seen what she thought was the ghost of a woman called Florrie Ford. Have you heard of Florie Ford? I have not heard of Florida. She was an old-timey musical singer. Oh, okay. She wrote Down at the Old Bull in the Bush.

Oh.

That old song. I know, here we go again. Back to our previous episode. Very famous song. It's probably London, by the way, folks, in case you're wondering. Um but yeah, Florrie Ford was actually um helping entertain troops during World War II in Aberdeen and apparently died either on stage or outside the building in a cab. Stories vary um according to the accounts, but I have heard she fell ill during the performance, died inside the dressing room, or was outside a cab, about to go in and fell ill and died subsequently. Now, this is true, uh, but the figure that's been seen since has been described as blue coloured, i.e., wearing a blue dress, tall and elegant. And so perhaps this is potentially this whatever it was I saw, which seems a bit peculiar hanging upside down from the ceiling, but nevertheless. So the cleaner in the early one morning is going round, and you know, it's a derelict building, essentially, being sort of vaguely kept in order. And um there's a woman in blue standing on the stage on her own, just we're a tall woman wearing blue, and the cleaner was just came around the corner and was like, Oh stood there mesmerized, and she just wandered off and vanished. And the cleaner was quite I mean I did speak to her after many years after the event, but she was pretty genuine. She said she thought that's who it was. Now I can't remember if she actually knew who Florie Ford was and sort of looked into it, because you know, you always kind of work to work out who actually died there. That's the only one we can think of, anyway. But it was an interesting story. Um when I was walking around, I did notice there were some areas were much colder than others. And I know it's a derelict building, and you know, a skeptic can go, well, it's gonna be cold, is there? Because there's no heating on. But there were definite parts of that building that felt very, very chilly. And I was there with a friend on a couple occasions, he said exactly the same, it felt like it was bits going on there. But anyway, that was her potentially Florie Ford, who was actually Australian but spent a lot of her time in Britain. Oh, another song, by the way, just remember, it's called Only a Bird in a Gilded Cage.

I have heard of that song. I don't know how it goes.

I know the only bush was. Which I'm not gonna sing now, she'll be glad to know. But uh, yeah, so that's uh that's the Tiv in Aberdeen. Now it was done up um about a same maybe 12 years ago, and it looks absolutely fabulous, and it's a working theatre again. So good on the people that have um put the time and money into resurrect the beautiful building.

Yeah, that's good.

I mean, they're not too keen on me asking about ghosts because I have contacted them if you did, but God bless you for doing up the buildings.

We don't want to talk about the ghosts, but we've done it up for. Okay, so uh this is my final one. Okay. So it is at well, it was Her Majesty's Theatre in London. Obviously, it's now at His Majesty's Theatre. God rest the Queen. Um so yeah, do you remember Tommy Cooper?

I do remember Chuck Blessed. Do we remember Tommy Cooper?

So Tommy Cooper was a comedian, a magician, um, born in 1921 to 1984, same age as Sid James by the sounds of it. 63. Yeah, instantly recognizable by his trademark Red Fez, deliberately chaotic magic trips. But he always had a deadpan delivery, didn't he? And what was his catchphrase? Just like that. Just like that, not like that, like that. It's like he's in the room, isn't it?

That was a synthetic.

So his finest performance. Now I actually remember this one quite well because I'm sure I saw it. 15th of April 1984, and he's appearing on the live ITV variety program live at Her Majesty's. And during his performance, Tommy was performing one of his comedy magic routines, and when he suddenly collapsed on stage, the audience initially laughed, believing it was part of the act. And when fellow performances continued briefly, also thinking it was one of Tommy's jokes, because they just thought he was just mucking about like he did. Um the curtain was brought down and Tommy was taken backstage and apparently suffered a massive heart attack and was pronounced dead shortly afterwards. Now I do remember watching that on tele.

Right.

Um where they actually what I remember is the the curtain suddenly coming down.

Yeah, I watched it uh morbidly um curiosity, I suppose, uh probably about a year ago and god it was depressing, what a shame. I mean, yeah, it was pretty shocking. But yeah, you're right, they just they they carried on the carried on, but that's part of the act.

Yeah, and perhaps that's the way that he would have wanted to go as well. He heard laughter, then you know, he was he was that perfor kind of performer. Um but following his death, start stories started circulating around the theatre star like they do. But there was very few reports that uh Tommy is actually appeared as an apparition. Okay. But instead it's described um as active. It's unlike many theatre hauntings, there are very few reports of Tommy actually appearing as an apparition. But instead the stories describe activity that mirrors his mysterious personality. So he's still acting the fall. Acting the fall acting the fall in death. Um so uh apparently props falling from shelves, uh stage equipment moving unexpectedly, plastic fruit and comedy props seem to be thrown off all without an explanation. Oh, you can imagine that, can't you?

To be fair, but never mind.

Uh objects appearing to move by themselves and small practical jokes seem occurring backstage. And some people reportedly joke it's just Tommy having a laugh. So, yeah, so much of the unexplained activity does centre around the props room. But according to uh the theatre tradition, this was the same area where Tommy was taken after collapsing on stage. I see, okay. So that could be the reason why he's there as well. Um but whether this is historical accurate or not, this is all part of the theatre story law as well. Um but he does come across as not frightening or angry or trash, instead, he's just playful, mischievous, and continuing to entertain and still playing practical jokes. So, yeah, so I suppose that's very much what he was like in life that he's still carrying it on. So there, that's a nice one to end on, I think.

Everything of the um personality continuing after indeed, yes.

There's no scary looking in the mirrors where he's in a white shroud of a ghostly face.

That's the James. Um I've got one final story, it's shortened it's from a place called Kirkodi, and it dates from 1920. You know Kircody?

I do know Kakodi.

Kingdom of Fife. So this is our final week story today, and it took place at the Adam Smith Centre, which is a week theater. While working there, both organist Ray Don and performer Steve King witnessed what was thought to be the apparition of Al Johnson. Al Jolson. Young Johnson, Al Johnson. So we've done that. I know it's pretty good, isn't it? After appearing in his first talkie, the jazz singer, his fame was cemented and he became a global sensation. So on this particular evening in 1980, uh, the actor Steve King um was performing in an evening with Al Jolson and friends. So the pair entered the dressing room to get ready for the performance, where they witnessed a man with grey receding hair sitting at the table cutting on makeup as in the style of Al Johnson. He wore a white shirt, bow tie, and was completely solid. Turning to Steve, Ray looked at his companion as if to say, Are you seeing this? before the vigour vanished. Ray, who up till then had been skeptical about ghosts, afterwards changed his mind. Steve later admitted that for the last two years while touring the show, he had seen the same apparition on several occasions, sometimes on stage, and on occasions in the audience watching them. Can you imagine how off-poon that was? The ghost of Al Jolson watching you. That's very meta, isn't it? I have to say. But yeah, scrutinizing performance. So that story actually appeared in the newspapers of the time, and there was a photograph of the people involved. Uh and that's it. One off. But it'd be interesting to see if one could find out what other theatres he'd been playing in. These two actors and musicians, as it were, and if they'd seen the same figure there, because he claimed this was quite a regular occurrence. I guess he must have been psychic, I think. Maybe. Imagine some ghosts sitting watching you where you're performing, as it were. Very often. But anyway, that was Kirkordi. Um I do like stories with ghosts that are, you know, celebs. And I like the ones you told today because I thought they were really good. Uh and and some of my favourite celebs as well you mentioned, which is which is fabulous. But anyway, folks, this is the end of our episode for the moment. Uh please join myself Graham Milne and Karen Swanston for our next episode of Lights on Still Scared, where we'll be discussing Phantom Roads, Ghost Roads, spooky transport. Sleep well, everyone.

In the meantime, keep the lights on, still scared.

I keep the hallway light on, but the shadows never fade. Every corner whispers secret, so the choice is that I made there's a tapping at the window, though the wind is tending still and a chill runs down my spine like something moving at its will. I tell myself it's nothing, just the creaking of the floor, but every night the silence feels very full. Remember three. But tell me if that's like it's looking at the body.